FOR 2024 Questionnaire

for Jefferson County Public Schools (JCPS)

School Board Candidates in District 2

Candidates for District 2:

***NOTE: There is only one remaining candidate for the District 2 seat—Tricia Lister.  Abby Berthold, who filed as a candidate for District 2, has said on her Facebook page that she was withdrawing her candidacy. She has completed the paperwork for withdrawing from the race, but the deadline for printing ballots had passed. Her name may still appear on your ballot in District 2. The Jefferson County Election Center website says that no votes for Ms.Berthold would be counted. 

Ms. Lister also applied to be considered for the temporary appointment as a replacement for former board member Chris Kolb, who resigned last this summer.  The JCPS board appointed her as Kolb’s replacement at their September 24, 2024 board work session.  She will become the duly elected District 2 board member after the November 5 election.

Her responses to the questionnaire below will help the board and District 2 constituents to understand some of her views on issues JCPS is facing.

Candidates for District 2:

I have been endorsed by C-FAIR, Kentuckians for the Commonwealth’s New Power PAC, and the Greater Louisville Area Realtors. I have also been designated a Gun Sense Candidate by Moms Demand Action.

My website is: tricialister.com

Issue Area 1—Equity in academic outcomes and the needed funding

1.       Background:   Among the 96,000 JCPS students, 65% are students of color, nearly 20% are multilingual learners/immigrants, 63% qualify for Free/Reduce Lunch and 13% are Exceptional Child Education (ECE—special needs students). JCPS consistently educates about 80% of school-age children in Jefferson County.  That is a high percentage for urban areas of our size around the US and is a vote of confidence from our community in the value of JCPS’ efforts.  

 As with their peer urban districts around the country, average reading and math scores for JCPS students with more challenges continue to lag significantly behind more privileged students on standardized state and national achievement tests. In some groups, the combined math and reading proficiency scores have been half or less of those from more advantaged groups.

These standardized tests have their own serious flaws, but there is no doubt learning gaps exist. The Courier Journal recently reported, though, that “Students at Jefferson County Public Schools showed improvement in state rankings [for SY2022-2023],” with almost 70% of district schools increasing their reading and math scores.” JCPS has been and must continue looking for effective ways to help each student succeed to their potential.

Research demonstrates that early interventions help eliminate learning gaps before they are entrenched. JCPS has such programs, but they are expensive and need community, state and federal support. Along with supportive social services, free meals, and socio-emotional learning, there are now research-based initiatives across all JCPS schools, particularly around math and literacy.  Smaller student/teacher ratios also allow more personalized help for underperforming students. Culturally-adapted curriculum in all subject areas engages more students. Magnet schools and the high school Academies of Louisville approach also increase engagement and passion for learning in students—both of which are critical to students’ academic growth.  Providing family resource supports and nutrition also helps many students to be able to come to school emotionally and physically more ready to concentrate on learning.

JCPS’ Future State plan looks for a major overall academic improvement as well as a reduction in outcome gaps by moving to a student-centered, “deep learning” approach. It focuses on teaching –and frequent performance assessment of– skills and dispositions for project-based learning and complex problem-solving tasks in a way tailored to an individual student’s culture and learning modes. 

These and other research-proven interventions and supports can help students become life-long learners, save JCPS and other government/college budget dollars long term by avoiding the need for remedial help in future years—whether that involves getting into college or self-teaching unfamiliar materials to advance beyond an initial job or trade.

 Question 1: As a matter of fundamental equity, what specific programs and/or other approaches would you champion/accelerate to close the persistent inter-group achievement/learning gaps? What other resources does JCPS need for adequately serving the growing immigrant populations? How could JCPS better support struggling students with authentic remedial help, not just prepping for and re-taking high-stakes testing? How and when would you assess the effectiveness of those programs system wide and for individual students?

Tricia Lister’s Response:

We should prioritize creating welcoming schools for our diverse student community, including multiple-language speakers. We need to pay multilingual associate-instructors competitive salaries so that we can get enough people to do this important job. We must ensure that our educators are culturally competent, so that that our students and families feel safe.

We need to think carefully about how to best support struggling students, including curricular resources, classroom aides, and community-based resources. Many achievement challenges can be addressed by having more people available to be present and engaged with the students; not only through smaller class sizes, but also that individual extra bit, during class, that can help students in the moment. There is nothing more important to invest in then our children.

Effectiveness needs to be assessed, but first, there needs to be time to implement changes and work out the kinks, before trying to determine effectiveness. It is essential that our teachers feel supported, but also respected as professionals. They need support staff and the freedom to make their classrooms work in ways they, as the experts, determine are appropriate for their students. Let’s ask them what assessments they would find valuable.

2.        Background:  Inter-group gap reduction is not simply a matter of increasing the learning growth rates of students in a disadvantaged demographic group. Gap reduction requires that underserved groups of students improve faster than more privileged demographic groups.

If we want all groups’ performance to keep rising, we cannot “rob Peter to pay Paul” and succeed as a district.  Reductions (on an inflation-adjusted basis) in Federal and KY SEEK funding have worsened JCPS’ funding situation significantly. Loss of focused COVID-era school funding will further reduce inflation-adjusted income sources. 

Local occupational and property tax revenues are already the largest source of General Fund revenues. Several years ago, the JCPS board unanimously passed a historic 7 cent/$100 property value increase in property tax rates.  Since then, though, the board has just taken the nonrecallable 4% annual revenue increase.  The rate actually dropped.  

The current Board expressed its intent that the District will, going forward, budget and spend revenues from that earlier tax rate increase for:

• 21st century facilities that engage students and faculty;
• additional focused resources in our highest-need schools;
• racial equity initiatives; and
• additional student instructional time, including after-school tutoring and summer programs.

The board has also approved using a school-by-school funding allocation approach used elsewhere in large urban districts with success. It builds up school budgets by giving slightly higher amounts for each student based on four key student body demographics: free and reduced lunch status (FRL), special needs (ECE), English language learners (ML—multi-lingual learners) and mobility/homelessness. This is another step toward more equitable allocations, particularly for high-poverty schools.  It cannot, however, make up for continuing underfunding by the state and US governments.

Question 2:   Do you support continuing the current board’s policy around allocating money to each school? How should schools allocate it between teacher salaries, programs, and facilities?  Are the current demographics-based multipliers appropriate and effective? If you do not support these per pupil multipliers, how would you pay for the additional budgets for providing research-based gap reduction initiatives that you recommend?

How would you assess if and when the district needs an increase in the tax rate above the allowable, nonrecallable 4% increase in order to meet student needs and equity?

Tricia Lister’s Response:

I do support the allocations amongst the schools as described in the background materials. Support for teachers should be the priority in distributing the allocations. We should also consider incentive pay for schools with teacher shortages, classroom aides, and relevant support staff and professionals that will help students be ready to learn. State of the art facilities will also improve the learning environment and inspire attendance and engagement. Programs identified as useful and inspiring to the students should also be funded.

Obviously, transportation needs to be adequately funded as well to make sure that all educational opportunities are available to each and every student. We should explore ways to staff the buses with adults, in addition to the drivers, to help the students not distract the drivers.

The school-by-school funding is a necessary reality that will serve the entire school system by making strides towards providing equitable educational opportunities for each and every student.

Funding the schools is a priority for a world-class city. I have no problem going above the 4% increase as long as funding is needed.

3.         Background:  Teachers are at the front lines of educating Jefferson County’s future workers and leaders. While JCTA teachers will receive a total 5% raise over the next two years–along with additional incentive bonuses for those excited to work in our highest poverty schools– teachers’ pay-scale increases have not matched inflation.  At the same time, nationally and locally there is a teacher shortage.  JCPS has had trouble filling new positions and retaining teachers, particularly those in Exceptional Childhood Education (special needs/disabilities), English as a Second Language/multi-lingual learners, and, more generally, in high-poverty schools. 

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Research confirms that students of color are much more likely to go to college if they have had a teacher who looks like them.  Currently, less than 20% of JCPS teachers are people of color. The student body is 65% people of color.

Question 3: What will you do as a school board member to ensure that:1) teacher/pupil ratios are adequate to ensure that every student receives the individual attention they need from teachers; and (2) teacher pay scales and working conditions allow us to attract and retain the best possible, diverse classroom teaching team?  What can be done to quickly develop and add more staff who look like our student body demographics?

 Tricia Lister’s Response:

From my conversations with current teachers, two key issues are adequate pay and adequate classroom supports. They need consistent and qualified classroom aides and support staff that can help with students who are struggling to focus and engage. Teachers can be most effective when students are engaged and focused. Support staff and classroom aides can provide essential assistance to improve opportunities for teaching and learning.

Also, we need to look at how we evaluate student success so that it is not seen as an attack on teachers in schools with students who are struggling. Teachers need the freedom and support to do what they see is needed to get those students engaged and ready to learn, without worrying about what impact that will have on standardized test scores.

In addition to support, and the freedom to teach creatively, we also need incentives to teach in the schools that are short-handed. How can we increase salaries and support staff? What about job shares? Let’s look carefully at the budget and get creative!

4.        Background:  Constitutional Amendment #2 is on the same ballot this November as your JCPS board race.  It would allow the use of state revenues to pay for private schooling. 

The legislature’s proposed amendment does not specify how and to what private programs the money would flow, but it could involve partial or full-tuition vouchers, tuition tax credits, private charter schools, parochial school and home-schooling tuition, etc. Some of these programs were passed by the legislature in recent years, but were found unconstitutional under Kentucky’s constitution. 

According to the Office of the KY State Budget Director, since fiscal year 2008, General Fund revenues have increases by 63.3%. Unfortunately, SEEK (education) appropriations only increased 26%, far short of inflation.  That is in large part why districts across the state, including JCPS, struggle or fall short to pay competitive salaries. With that track record, it seems unlikely that the legislature would both raise public K-12 funding to competitive levels with neighboring states and either raise taxes or take appropriations away from other programs such at healthcare, public safety or infrastructure to pay for tuition vouchers.

The annual lost revenue for JCPS was estimated by the KY Center on Economic Policy to be between $20-120MM per year, depending on the level of voucher funding. They also estimate that there would be layoffs of hundreds of teachers and other staff. These estimates cover only payments to current private school and home-schooled students, without counting any JCPS students that might leave JCPS.

The amendment provides no financial or academic accountability requirements for private schools, no controls on discrimination, no program caps on income limits for private school enrollments or related voucher expenditures.

Question 4: Do you support the Constitutional Amendment #2 on the ballot this November that would allow public funds to go to private schools, including parochial and charter schools? Yes or No?

Do you see a role for charter schools that is not currently met by various JCPS’ special schools, its high school Academies of Louisville or magnet schools in the district?  How would you measure charter success or failure compared to current JCPS programs? Under what, if any, conditions would a charter school be acceptable to you? 

Tricia Lister’s Response:

I am a firm NO on Amendment #2. It is very important to the health of public schools that the initiative fail. Taking dollars away from JCPS will not solve anything.

I oppose bringing charter schools to Louisville. Some studies show charter schools to be successful at providing meaningful choices to parents in struggling school systems. Other studies show that the addition of charter schools again results in inequitable schools. The goal is to provide equitable access to high quality schools for every student. Charter schools have not been shown to achieve this goal. The issue with charter schools is that they don’t deliver significantly greater outcomes than public schools. There are a few shining examples, but there are also a few shining examples in public systems, including many in JCPS. When you compare the best charter school to the worst public school, obviously they look great. When you compare the best public school to the worst charter school, vice-versa. In the end, if they don’t consistently deliver better outcomes, the risk of removing public dollars from the system is too great. Likewise, vouchers and tuition tax credits take money out of the system and will not help JCPS succeed.

Issue Area 2–Experiencing and benefiting from diversity

5.        Background:  U.S. Census projections indicate that today’s JCPS graduates will live and work for most of their careers in an America where the majority of the population is nonwhite. Diversity in the workplace—around race and ethnicity, but also gender identity, national origin and other demographics– will be a given. JCPS’ student mix is already “majority minority” (or, “Global Majority”). This diversity can actually be an advantage for all JCPS students in that it prepares them for a successful and fulfilling life in a more diverse society and work environment. 

Diversity requires integrated classrooms, though, not just diversity at the school level. Magnet, traditional and Academy of Louisville programs were instituted to provide opportunities to attract and engage students by blending career/interests and academic areas. However, they also were intended, in part, to help voluntarily increase diversity in the school system. The Magnet Schools of America organization in particular urges intentionally diverse student populations in magnet classrooms, because its data show that a diverse mix of students, exposed to other students’ different ways of learning and looking at problems, helps all students be more effective and creative problem solvers.

The school board and the past and current superintendents have created a Department of Diversity, Equity, and Poverty (DEP).  Its goal is support for educational excellence regardless of ethnicity, race, color, national origin, age, different abilities, religion, marital or parental status, political affiliations or beliefs, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, or gender expression. Equitable academic programs and services that respond to the needs of a diverse student population, help students see themselves and their history, and prepare all students for a changing workplace within a global economy are essential.

However, the Kentucky legislature has in the recent past tried to label fuller exposure to all sides of the history of different races and ethnicities in the US as part of critical race theory (CRT). CRT is not taught in JCPS. DEP has implemented teacher training and electives around history and awareness. The legislature considered several bills in the 2024 session to restrict diversity, equity, and inclusion programs, primarily at the post-secondary level, but did not pass any.  They will doubtless be reintroduced in 2025 and may challenge funding and programs around DEI at all educational levels, including K-12.

Question 5: Do you support the purpose and programs of the Diversity, Equity and Poverty department and programs in JCPS?  What do think needs to be done to provide more equitable, not just equal, opportunity for students from underserved communities?  How can we both increase every student’s pride of self and their appreciation of other’s differences?

Tricia Lister’s Response:

I absolutely support the DEP department and goals. To provide equitable educational experiences to each and every child in JCPS, we need to be sure that all students are able to get to school ready to learn. There are many aspects to being ready to learn that include having a way to get to school, being adequately fed, having a place to sleep and time to sleep, having a safe and quiet place to do homework, having access to caring adults to help with homework and other things that arise. We need to partner with the valuable resources in our community to be sure each child has these needs met.

The Magnet schools provide an invaluable opportunity for families from all over our city to come together for the common goal of pursuing the particular focus of each Magnet. We need to support those Magnets and be sure they are easily accessible to each student. We are all better served when we interact with others from different parts of the city, not just our own enclave. Again, focusing on adequately staffing each school is essential to providing equitable educational opportunities to each and every student.

6.         Background:  The board and superintendent ended decades of the busing of West End students to east and south end school for diversity. The district recently created the School Choice program, which provides enhanced opportunity and resources at “dual resides” schools in and close to the West End. It has improved academic opportunities, but decreased district-wide racial and socioeconomic diversity in classrooms.

National and JCPS research data show that learning and test scores for low-income students increasingly suffer when a school’s low-income (identified by free/reduced lunch—FRL– status) student population exceeds about 40% of the school’s total demographic.    Our entire district student population is about two thirds FRL. As of 2023, more than 70% of our JCPS schools are over 90% FRL.

Question 6: How important is classroom diversity for our students? How would you approach either reducing very high-poverty schools or adequately resourcing them for success of all of their students?  What must happen to be truly student-centered on all the needs, barriers and gifts of these students?

Tricia Lister’s Response:

Diversity is essential to a strong educational system. We all learn better and become stronger when we engage with people and ideas outside our usual context and assumptions. We need to be one school system, excellent for each and every child, and that unity comes with embracing the diversity of our city.

As discussed above, funding allocation will help reduce the impacts of poverty on all the schools so that we can make each school a valuable asset to our community, and use the entire system to ensure excellent options for each and every student. To be clear, I am not advocating for forced neighborhood schools. Students need options to choose between, especially as we strengthen our magnet schools to tailor educational options to each student’s different interests and paths.

Issue Area 3–Pro-active behavioral assessment, mental health professionals, and effective student-teacher relationships for a classroom/school climate for learning

7.        Background:  There are a variety of programs (e.g., PBIS, Restorative Practices, Compassionate Schools, Trauma Informed Care, etc.) and mental health professionals at JCPS schools where—ideally– teams of teachers and counselors assess students and implement plans to avoid situations that give rise to behavioral problems for individual students.  Teachers are continually being trained to teach and model specific positive behaviors, to understand different cultures, to de-escalate, and to ask not “what is wrong with this child?”  but “What has happened to this child?”. Some of this support and healing work must include families, not just students.

Much has happened to our students–the isolation of COVID, increased violence in our community, and the generational stress and trauma of families living in poverty. Absenteeism is soaring at JCPS and elsewhere across the country and is emblematic of the impact of these stresses on student sense of belonging and inclusion and corresponding behaviors. There have been significant efforts at increasing the numbers of social workers and mental health professionals in JCPS schools.   Because of their limited numbers, though, they may often be called on to respond only after problems occur.

Question 7: How can the schools provide professional, collaborative behavioral assessments of students at every school to help students, parents, and teachers (and, yes, bus drivers) engage positively, before students are stigmatized by disciplinary consequences? What programs or staffing would you champion that would proactively identify students’ needs and provide support? What models are needed to build appropriate self-control behaviors and sense of accountability by students, teachers, and parents?  How do we engage with and support parents around their students’ challenges inside and outside of school, as well as their learning and school choices?  How can student voice help direct this work?

Tricia Lister’s Response:

All of the measures addressed in your background materials are appropriate and needed. Let’s fund and hire for those positions. We need to focus on meeting our students where they are, and ensuring they are ready to learn. Students need to feel ownership over their educations and a sense of pride and belonging in their schools. Let’s feed their curiosity and engagement in learning. If they are experiencing obstacles that get in the way of their being ready to learn, let’s be sure we have well-supported and resourced staff ready to take on those obstacles. Students’ voices are absolutely an essential part of this process. Let’s listen to the students about what they need and want to get the best education available. Let’s listen to their teachers, who are the experts in the building, about what they identify as the areas of need and the best responses to those needs.

8.        Background: JCPS’ first (2013) and subsequent “Equity Scorecard” reports have quantified the racial inequities in disciplinary outcomes, particularly in racially-disproportionate arrests and use of out-of-school suspensions. National research data show that out-of-school suspension is a key predictor of future low achievement, dropping out, delinquency, and incarceration. Just one suspension doubles the chance of dropping out. These inequities do not occur uniformly in every school across JCPS.  

National research also shows that out-of-school suspensions are ineffective at changing student behaviors.  Suspended students are more likely to repeat behaviors– and consequences– again. Suspensions accelerate declines in academic performance both because of the lost learning time and the disengagement from loss of a sense of belonging.

Suspensions are also expensive for JCPS—e.g., a loss of attendance-based funding and the cost of providing “alternative schools”.  While all that research is clear, some JCPS teachers (as indicated by national TELL surveys) feel they do not have all the skills and resources necessary to maintain their classrooms without using out-of-school suspension for “crises”. 

Multiple or serious suspensions can lead to assignment to one of JCPS’ alternative schools.  At one alternative school, the 2023-24 student population was almost 78% African American and 33% special needs students.

Question 8: How can we simultaneously create a sense of belonging in safe and welcoming schools to reduce unwanted behaviors and radically decrease use of out-of-school suspensions? How can we decrease the disproportionalities of alternative school placements and, more generally, find ways to keep more student–in all demographic groups–in regular schools where they can develop their social skills and maintain their progress in learning? How would you pay for the programs, training, etc.?

Tricia Lister’s Response:

Everything addressed above responds to this question. Let’s support teachers with qualified aides and support staff. Let’s get more adults in the buildings and on the busses. Let’s make sure the curriculum is engaging and meaningful. Let’s listen to teachers about what the needs are and how those needs can best be met. Let’s allocate funding with a priority on a positive educational experience for each and every child.

I am a criminal defense attorney. I know first-hand that engaging students and ensuring a sense of belonging and community at school is essential to keeping people out of the criminal justice system. Caring adults in young people’s lives make a world of difference. That is where our funding needs to go – getting qualified, caring adults, lots of them, into the schools.

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9.        Background: Armed, sworn officers in schools have been shown to actually increase arrests and suspensions and decrease student sense of belonging, particularly for students of color.  Nationwide, they have not been found to effectively stop mass shootings in schools.

The 2022 Kentucky legislature passed legislation (HB63) that requires one armed police officer (SRO) fulltime onsite per school. The original compliance deadline was August 2022, but more than half of all KY schools—including JCPS—could not comply, either because of costs or inability to find qualified candidates.  JCPS proposed a school police force and a “circuit rider” approach, where each officer drove around to several assigned schools, but generally would not go inside the building unless specifically called in by the principal. JCPS has continued building an in-house police department along this model.

Question 9: Do you support further expansion of armed/sworn officers in JCPS schools? How do you think the JCPS board should respond to the state legislation allowing armed “guardians”  (SB2, in 2024 regular session) to be hired by districts to serve inside schools? How should student voice help direct this work?

Tricia Lister’s Response:

I do not believe that guns belong in schools. Period. We have to follow the law, of course, but a careful reading of any such law is required to see what has actually been legislated. Also, frequently Frankfort issues commands without any source of funding. We should not divert funds from other resources to put guns in schools.

            Issue Area 4—Student privacy and the marketing of the military in JCPS

10.      Background:  Military leaders in the Pentagon enthusiastically confirm that JROTC is a valued recruiting tool for the Armed Services.  Because of the Pentagon’s financial resources, its marketing access and impact on students is far beyond that of colleges and trades programs.  The Pentagon has announced a goal of doubling the number of JROTC units countrywide by 2030.  The Kentucky legislature just funded a state office—with additional Pentagon funding– for coordination of JROTC programs and resources across Kentucky. 

JCPS data (2013) have confirmed that marketing impact—its graduating cadets enlisted in the Armed Services at 15 times the rate of non-cadet seniors. There is targeting of that impact, as well.  JCPS data also showed a disproportionate number of low-income and/or minority students enrolled into JROTC.  

JROTC and cadet programs had claimed that they increase average cadet test scores and reduce disciplinary issues. However, analysis of JCPS data (Gainous report–2013) found no significant impact on average achievement outcomes, despite the fact that cadets who underachieve academically can be dropped from, or encouraged strongly to leave, the program.  

JROTC classes generally replace a student’s available time for “Related Arts” classes—arts, music, foreign languages, etc. Research has demonstrated these creative “related arts” help students achieve academically. 

In many of the JROTC programs, there have been onsite shooting ranges for training at the high schools. 

JROTC texts and curricula cannot be reviewed and selected by the district. No JCPS Racial Equity Analysis Protocol (REAP) is done on the curricula provided by the Pentagon. Nationally, they have been shown to present US history from a very skewed vantage point.

 Question 10: What would you do as a board member to make sure that JCPS students and parents have objective, balanced information to make evidence-based decisions about the presence of and participation in JROTC/cadet programs in JCPS? How would you evaluate the value of JROTC units in place of Related Arts offerings such as foreign languages, arts and music programs? Would you require local curriculum review or cessation of onsite shooting ranges? Would you support shutting down JROTC programs that do not meet the military contract’s minimum JROTC enrollment levels?

Tricia Lister’s Response:

Students are not well-served by being diverted into a military-recruiting platform during high school. It is essential that parents and students are given accurate and transparent information about what they miss out on by spending time in the JROTC. Let’s focus on empowering students to follow their curiosities and interests and plans that will open doors and provide access for a wide variety of future paths to each and every student, regardless of socio-economic backgrounds.

I cannot imagine any value to on-site shooting ranges in schools. Keep guns out of schools. Let’s bring in all the data we can about the impact and outcomes of JROTC programs vs schools and students without those programs.

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